Are independence supporters really “a potent force in the land”, as Ruth Wishart suggests? If that were so, surely the SNP’s abysmal handling of the constitutional issue would not have tolerated for so long. If independence supporters are a potent force, how might we explain the fact that no political party in Scotland is offering them a plan for restoring Scotland’s independence? Can a force be both potent and ineffectual?
What the polls show is the epically unsurprising fact that independence supporters agree that Scotland should return to being an independent country. They are of one mind in concluding that having had a 300-year trial period, the Union has been found to be considerably less beneficial to Scotland than we might have hoped – if you’ll forgive the facetious understatement. Members of the Yes movement will tend to answer Yes when asked the standard question borrowed from the ballot paper for 2014’s strictly consultative and non-self-executing referendum. But that’s where agreement ends.
Cataloguing the areas of disagreement within the independence movement would be a major task. Mapping the various factions and their relationships would be an even greater challenge. Any attempt at either of these things is inevitably open to criticism on grounds of over-generalisation. Nonetheless, it is essential to have some understanding of what divides us, however much some would prefer to accentuate the positive of the polls and their comforting illusion of solidarity.
Let’s try to list some of the main areas of disagreement and division belied by those polling figures on support for independence.
On one side, we have those who maintain that the SNP/Scottish Government is doing a bang-up job of ‘delivering’ independence. On the other, there’s those who annoyingly point out the rather awkward fact that independence has not been ‘delivered’.
On one side we have those who insist that the only route to independence is the same one as led to the 2014 Section 30 referendum. On the other, there is the argument that there is not and cannot be a route to independence through the legal and constitutional razor-wire entanglements which have developed under England-as-Britain’s imperative to preserve the Union.
In the home side’s changing room we have the argument that competence and principle on the part of the Scottish Government contrasting with the gross ineptitude and brazen corruption of the UK government will increase support for independence to a point where consistently high polling will create an unanswerable case for a new referendum. In the visitor’s changing room, is the argument that the Scottish Government has sadly fumbled the ‘competence and principled’ ball rather too often – not to mention conceding too many free kicks – for this to be true, And besides, there is absolutely no evidence of the effect predicted by the hypothesis.
In the blue corner the strategy is to keep plodding away with the tried and tested that would have got Yes a points win if it hadn’t been for last round knockout punch landed by No. In the red corner the feeling is that an entirely different strategy is required. That going for a points victory is ill-advised given the size and weight of the opponent and the fact that the referee is his brother and the judges are all cousins. The advice in the red corner is to come out fighting having ripped a few pages out of the rule-book and dumped them in the spit-bucket.
In the home team’s dressing-room, the manager is telling the team that if they play with style and elegance they’ll win the hearts of the crowd. In the visitors’ dressing-room the manager is urging the players to get stuck in and repeatedly put the ball in the back of the net if they want to win the match.
The established marketing guru is advising a campaign of portraying independence as a great, fun-filled destination using glossy brochures and slick TV ads. Across the road, the new-start advertising agency is urging a campaign attacking the competition on every front while stressing that independence is the only way to escape the awfulness.
There is a school of thought which holds that politicians are incapable and superfluous and people-power is what will carry us to independence. The alternative school of thought is that the strength of the people can only have effect when it is combined and channelled through the democratic system.
It occurs to me that this list could stretch a lot further than anyone has time and patience enough to read. Everyone who has seen this far from comprehensive list will have an item they insist should have been included. But the point is made. It is only necessary to add that the reality is not the clear-cut affair hinted at by the above. There’s a lot of overlap and mix-and-match and fence-sitting etc. complicating the picture. One thing seems clear, however, and that is that anyone hoping to achieve unity in the independence movement by resolving all these differences is on a fools errand. That just isn’t going to happen.
This does not mean that getting the necessary combining isn’t possible. The clue to how it might be accomplished is in those polls. As observed at the outset, the whole independence movement comes together when the debate is distilled down to the essential question of Scotland’s constitutional status.
That the movement combines only for the purposes of this question and falls apart immediately having answered it is also informative. What this suggests is that if a useful degree of unity is to be achieved and sustained then it’s not just a matter of asking a question that brings the core issue into sharp focus, that focus must have a purpose. It must have an associated action. If independence supporters are not engaged in action that takes Scotland’s cause forward then their activism will be engaged elsewhere. If that activism is not given a purpose, it will go in search of one – heading off in all sorts of directions.
My thinking is that if the Yes movement is once persuaded to come together for a particular purpose it will thereafter more easily be brought together for whatever purposes the fight to restore Scotland’s independence requires. What is needed is some form of action that is all but certain to be supported and participated in by the largest part of the independence movement. this action must, therefore, be something that will appeal to the least committed of those activists. The ones who don’t go on marches or attend rallies or take part in street-work. Don’t expect these people do anything that requires much in the way of effort. Don’t ask then to make a sustained effort. Ideally, make it a case of not doing something rather than doing something. But if it must be something that is done, make it a quick and easy one-off. And if it’s fun to do, that’s even better.
The idea of repurposing the ballot paper in the 2024 Westminster election as vote to #EndTheUnion ticks all those boxes. It involves nothing more than writing #EndTheUnion across the ballot paper. And that’s it! If enough people do this, it will create a bit of a stir. There will be a reward for the effort of repurposing the ballot in the form of a discernible effect. This should make it easier to persuade Yes activists to participate in the next action. Hopefully, this might grow into the kind of sustained and concentrated and coordinated mass campaign that is needed if our aspirations are to be realised.
I shall be continuing to promote a ‘Repurpose Your Vote’ campaign between now and the Westminster election, whenever that might be. Whether it succeeds is up to you.
Peter A Bell 
“I shall be continuing to promote a ‘Repurpose Your Vote’ campaign between now and the Westminster election”.
I have recommended that action in different places but especially on YoursFor Scotland on a number of occasions and there does seem to be an appetite for it, perhaps not surprising given the approach they are taking to furthering Scotland’s Cause i.e. Salvo, Liberation, Stirling Directive etc.
Have you considered harnessing Iain Lawson and his YfS blog readership?
#EndTheUnion
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I’m working on a few things. But Iain Lawson is not a member of my fan club. I doubt if he would be supportive of any suggestion coming from me. Like I say, I’ve got a couple of things cooking. But to be totally honest I have no enthusiasm for taking a leading role in anything like this. To many past frustrations and disappointments. Generally explained by the fact that people are shite.
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When you say that the people are shite Peter does that include good self.
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Of course. I have no illusions.
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Iain Lawson “liked” both duncanio’s comment about #EndTheUnion and mine which were made after reading a guest post “Unite or Fail”. A lot of the comments were in favour of using our votes in this way. There is nothing to lose by repurposing our votes and there could be something to gain if enough people do it. Have you contacted Iain to ask, politely, for his views and for any suggestions about taking this forward as a serious campaign? You can make it clear that you do not want to lead it. Someone suggested Sarah Salyers for that role.
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I’ll reflect on all you say. I suspect Sara is rather too busy for the role you suggest. I wish I had her energy.
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Thanks Peter. Sara wasn’t my suggestion but her support would be a boost to a campaign even if she wasn’t able to devote time to leading it.
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Peter,
Whilst I appreciate your thoughts and articles on the best route to independence, scrawling a slogan on many ballot papers will surely render them spoilt and hence allow the Unionists to win many more seats at Westminster. That will then be spun as a large setback for the SNP and the Independence Movement. There must be more positive ways to “cause a stir”, without giving up more Westminster seats to the Unionists.
We already have a mass movement for all Yes voters, no matter what party they believe will take us to our end goal. It is called Believe in Scotland. Whilst you and others chatter and attack each other, Believe in Scotland has united about 147 local and national Yes groups throughout the country. We are also achieving some influence over the Scottish Government.
We are doing research, organising regular meetings to coordinate the efforts of Yes supporters throughout Scotland, active on social media, producing leaflets, articles and books for Yes supporters, organising mass canvassing, marches and rallies, all without attacking other Yes supporters.
Please join us to bring together most supporters of independence for Scotland. We should be spending our time attacking the failings of the Unionists and trying to win over undecided voters by pointing out the huge benefits of independence, not attacking each other.
Donald Maclean
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“We are also achieving some influence over the Scottish Government.”
Can you evidence how BiS have effected this in a way that the SG fully recognises the sovereignty of the Scottish people via the Claim of Right (1689) and the people’s right of self-determination as laid out in the UN Charter?
Have you managed to convince the SG that deferring to Westminster i.e. begging for a non-binding referendum – a glorified opinion poll – in reality compromises both the sovereignty and self-determination rights of the Scottish people?
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Believe on Scotland is nothing more than a front for the SNP. It has been set up to ‘guide’ the wider YES movement towards what the SNP want.
They have never organised matches before but suddenly because the matches continued they have set up ones which clash with others, despite knowing the prearranged dates. BiS refused to advertise or participate in the Chain of Freedom event.
BiS should stick to providing the excellent literature they do. Make the literature cheap and get it to the whole YES movement to distribute.
There is no need for BiS to duplicate the already excellent organisations/events that YES groups organise.
It almost seems like a vanity project for GMK and BiS!
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I agree with the idea that BiS is too close to the SNP and a vanity project for GMK, but their literature is good and makes important points about the riches that belong to scotland , but are expoited for the benefit of our coloniser.
I plan to write #End the Union on my ballot paper for the next GE in the hope that it will have some effect.
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Spoiling the ballots is the entire point of the exercise. But spoiling them in a purposeful way. Hence ‘Repurpose Your Vote’. As things stand and unless one or more of the nominally pro-independence parties adopts a genuine #ManifestoForIndependence, there is no option for those of us more committed to Scotland’s cause than to some party or faction. If enough people write #EndTheUnion across their ballot, this will register not merely as spoilt papers, but as a campaign. Your dismissive attitude is, I’m afraid, typical of the posture which prevents collective and therefore effective action.
The fact is that there is no way for people to vote for independence and no voting strategy which can affect the outcome. There will be a Unionist (in fact, British Nationalist) UK government no matter how Scotland votes. The SNP is on an unswerving course to lose seats. Therefore, the “large setback” will be spun no matter what. They will always find a way of spinning any election result as a ‘blow to the separatists’. Watch the front page of the Daily Express if you doubt me.
The only way voters in Scotland can make any kind of impact is by doing something different. The expectation of the British establishment is that we will vote for one party or another believing their lying rhetoric about the effect this will have when they know full fucking well that it will have no effect at all. Only by denying this expectation can we disrupt the system which prevents our voice being heard or our votes having influence.
The days when we voted en masse for the SNP in order to signal our desire for independence are long gone. They ended when Nicola Sturgeon succumbed to the temptation to use the status and influence of high office in the service of personal ambition rather Scotland’s cause. Which was probably about twenty minutes after she became First Minister. Voting for the SNP now signals only contentment with the status quo and deference to Westminster. The same goes for the other nominally pro-independence parties.
I am. of course, aware of Believe in Scotland and the claims Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp makes for his business… sorry… organisation. For all those claims, what I can’t help but notice is that polling for Yes has remained distinctly unimpressed – having flatlined since 2015 at a level within margin-of-error range of 50%. The fact is that Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp’s style of campaign – which precisely reflects the SNP leadership’s chosen approach to the constitutional issue – ceased to be effective some months prior to the 2014 referendum. The other thing that precisely reflects the attitude of the SNP leadership is Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp’s blank refusal to recognise the failure of selling independence like an investment opportunity or a time-share in Marbella. And the absolute refusal to even consider any alternative campaign strategy or tactics.
When I read that there are “about 147 local and national Yes groups throughout the country” following Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp’s lead, I think only what a waste of resources this represents. I reflect ruefully on what might be achieved if all that effort were being expended on effective campaigning.
Which is not to say that Business for Independence and its offshoots don’t do some useful work. The research they do provides useful material. But their campaign methods simply do not work, for reasons I have repeatedly explained.
I can’t help but note the irony – not to say hypocrisy – of your closing remark. I could just as readily say that you should stop attacking those whose only ‘crime’ is to think outside the box. It should be apparent to all by now that restoring Scotland’s independence will require bold, imaginative, disruptive action. Running an independence campaign as if it was an election is a mistake made in the first referendum campaign that should not be repeated. Behaving as if there is route to independence within the rules put in place by those determined to preserve the Union is, frankly, just stupid.
Here’s a fresh thought for you. (I hope it doesn’t bring you out in a rash.) Why don’t you get Believe in Scotland to urge all those affiliated groups to join with those of us who have realised that #ScottishUDI is the ONLY way and that doing things the British way is a ghastly error.
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“and hence allow the Unionists to win many more seats at Westminster”
But if the SNP are there to “Hold Starmer to account”, or be the third biggest UK party, or “Reform the corridors of power at Westminster”, or tell Sunak he shouldn’t comment that Starmer doesn’t know what a woman is, what difference is there between a unionist MP and an SNP MP, when it comes ti Independence, about which they are doing diddly squat? So who cares apart from the cosy cushion SNP MPs, whose only argument seems to be to threaten voters that it will be the end of the universe as we know it if we don’t vote the them?
And an emphasis would be on getting people who are talking about abstaining or not bothering to vote, to make a positive statement and spoil their ballot sheets instead.
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Did I forget to mention that we’re supposed to get excited about abolishing the rUK House of Lords? Or being indignant that Starmer is or isn’t going back on his green credentials for the Rest of the U flaming K? Or care about Liz Truss or some by-election in Rochdale? Who gives a flying one? Not I!
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I agree with what you say, yesindyref2. I always vote but I’m sure many people will not turn out at the GE this year. Why bother when voting for the SNP won’t bring independence any closer? Why bother when candidates from the small parties won’t be elected? Why bother when it will make little, if any, difference whether Labour or the Tories form the next government? The majority of people of all political persuasions are fed up with the troughers so why vote to give them another 5 years on the green benches? Perhaps #EndTheUnion will encourage more people to go to the polling stations and spoil their ballot papers by using this phrase.
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Please, RE-PURPOSE, not spoil!! There is a distinction which must be emphasised.
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Please REPURPOSE, not RE-PURPOSE!!!
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AWRIGHT!!!
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Agree with posters above on BiS
I too am floating your idea of a spoiled ballot on other forums as and when the opportunity arises
As you have said it is important that they are all spoiled in the same way so that party reps at counts can see it is a concerted campaign
The problem obviously is getting the message across to ordinary voters who probably get all their political “news” from MSM outlets
Have you considered a crowd-funded billboard campaign in the run up to any election covering city centres, train stations, airports, motorways etc?
I for one would contribute
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Happy to contribute also, Neth.
Good idea, preferably as a guerilla operation, like ‘Lead by Donkeys’ . Their tactics got a lot of publicity!
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Agree with posters above on BiS
I too am floating your idea of a spoiled ballot on other forums as and when the opportunity arises
As you have said it is important that they are all spoiled in the same way so that party reps at counts can see it is a concerted campaign
The problem obviously is getting the message across to ordinary voters who probably get all their political “news” from MSM outlets
Have you considered a crowd-funded billboard campaign in the run up to any election covering city centres, train stations, airports, motorways etc?
I for one would contribute
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That is probably an excellent suggestion. Thing is, I don’t want to be that deeply involved. I’ve had so many failures and knock-backs and disappointments in the past, I now find it very difficult to put may heart into any project. I am content to throw ideas out there, argue for them, but leave the organising to others.
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Struggling to get comments to appear so apologies if this ends up duplicating!
Agree with posters above on BiS I too am floating your idea of a spoiled ballot on other forums as and when the opportunity arises As you have said it is important that they are all spoiled in the same way so that party reps at counts can see it is a concerted campaign The problem obviously is getting the message across to ordinary voters who probably get all their political “news” from MSM outlets
Have you considered a crowd-funded billboard campaign in the run up to any election covering city centres, train stations, airports, motorways etc?
I for one would contribute
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Apologies. Akismet has lately been dumping quite innocent posts in the spam bin. And, of course, I forget to check it.
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My intention has always been to Repurpose my ballot paper with #ENDTHEUNION..I do not believe any party that stands as an INDY party should ever take up a seat in WM.. I know ISP have said they will NOY take a seat in that parliament & I commend them for it, but I would like to think that there will be more repurposed Ballots than votes for the few MPs they intend to stand..I do NOT believe that Political parties will get us Independence anymore it HAS to be a peoples movement.. And for me that movement should start with the repurposing of ballot papers.. As for BiS.. If they really believed in Scotlands cause for Indy they would not be holding a march & rally on the same day as AUOB.. They would be JOINING the largest march surely…
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All excellent points, Kate. But one serious quibble. We CANNOT discount political parties. We cannot discount the Scottish Government. We cannot discount the Scottish Parliament. Therefore, we cannot discount politicians or political parties.
The notion of ‘people power’ is a pernicious idea that does precisely the opposite of what it says on the tin. People are encouraged to suppose we can dispense with political parties. They are encouraged to disengage from political parties. Thus, the political parties end up being run, not by the members and for some ideal, but by whatever clique has come to dominate and for whichever interests this clique serves. The more successfully the notion of people power is insinuated into the minds of the people, the less actual power they have because the political parties are the means by which people access the democratic process and effective political power – the power to effect change.
It is a self-perpetuating, self-reinforcing process. The more the parties are in the grip of cliques serving vested interests, the more people are alienated from them and the easier it becomes for the cliques to take over.
We will repair, renew and reinvigorate democratic politics not by abandoning political parties, but by reengaging with them so as to drive out the cliques and the vested interests and the self-serving careerists and retake access to effective political power.
EVERYBODY should be a member of a political party and using every opportunity to have their say in its management. As things stand, the people have strength, but no way to convert that strength into effective political power because that is the function of the political parties which have fallen by default into the hands of those who crave that power.
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I am seriously considering not voting at an election for the first time in my life. So maybe your proposal is a better option for me. However if the SNP was to make this election about independence I might vote for them. However it looks like the SNP won’t be doing that and therefore will be humped at the GE. I dearly wish they could see this. I think apathy is the big winner.
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Spoilt ballots are counted when calculating turnout and wouldn’t be credited to either side, whatever is written on them. This makes a spoilt ballot the worst of both worlds; a large enough sum of spoilt ballots could push a +50% for Yes parties result below that crucial threshold, even if they (finally!) outnumber the votes for No parties.
Either abstain to drag the turnout of Scots in Westminster elections below Holyrood’s turnout or hold your nose and vote for the SNP candidate. The day more voters turn out in a Holyrood election than does for a coterminous Westminster election is the day the union finally loses the battle for popular sovereignty.
Imagine we were holding Holyrood turnout above 60%, but Westminster’s was starting to look more like council turnouts. Bye-bye UK.
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“Spoilt ballots are counted when calculating turnout and wouldn’t be credited to either side, whatever is written on them.”
That’s the point!
#EndTheUnion means: a) what it says & EXPLICITLY rejects the British government, parliament, candidates and the whole British political system and b) none of the political parties get my vote (as they don’t have manifestos in support of this objective).
“Either abstain to drag the turnout of Scots in Westminster elections below Holyrood’s turnout or hold your nose and vote for the SNP candidate.”
Not registering a vote will simply be interpreted that people are apathetic about Independence. It is self-defeating.
With regard to the SNP the LEADERSHIP will simply interpret votes for them in any way that they wish whether that be to ‘stand up for Scotland’ or ‘stand strong for Scotland’ or ‘make Scotland’s voice heard’ or some other piece of woolly hyperbolic bullshit. Anything at all but actually displaying, and acting on, a full blooded commitment to restoring Scotland’s independent statehood. Plus it will be used as an endorsement of their approach on matters such as genderism, judicial reform, criminal law etc.
“Imagine we were holding Holyrood turnout above 60%, but Westminster’s was starting to look more like council turnouts. Bye-bye UK.”
In other words if we were just to shut our eyes, cross our fingers and repeat “make it so” enough times the UK will be dissolved? What a magical idea. And fanciful.
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You missed my point. There is no mechanism for counting numbers of ballot papers spoilt in a particular way. 100,000 saying “End the Union” and 20,000 saying “Abolish Holyrood” are meaningless. They would be counted together as 120,000 spoilt ballots. This 120,000 would be counted as having turned out, boosting popular legitimacy to Westminster elections simply by participating.
I don’t think Westminster turnout will actually drop to council levels, the example is an extreme scenario to illustrate why transferring popular sovereignty(the number of people who vote!) to Holyrood matters.
By persuading people not to vote for Westminster and keep voting for Holyrood elections you are advancing the cause of independence, albeit to a lesser degree than voting for pro-independence parties would.
Even a vote for the Greens or Alba is more useful because they will be counted as a pro-Yes vote, if you cannot hold your nose. Spoilt ballots will not be.
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You are wrong. But you seem content.
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Please show me a list of spoilt ballots from any UK election, broken down by the nature of their spoilage.
I’m sorry but the absurdity of the idea becomes obvious once we realise that you need the BRITISH media to shine a spotlight upon it, to make it rolling headline news for weeks, perhaps even commission an ITV drama about it.
Some minor journalist mentioning “there’s a bunch of spoilt ballots here” at 3.23am doesn’t cut mustard. The main presenter’s response, “that’s interesting but who is winning there?”
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FFS! When was the last time there was an organised campaign to repurpose ballots in a specific way? Because that would be the only valid comparison. Duh!
Frankly, anyone who imagines there could be 100,000 ballots bearing the same message and this would go unremarked, is a bloody fool.
As better informed people than yourself are aware, ballot papers are potentially seen by dozens if not scores of people. By law, the ballot must be kept face-up all the time once they are tipped from the ballot-box onto the counting table. They are visible to candidates, agents and official observers as well as others attending the count. To suppose there might be a phenomenon such as tens of thousands of ballots marked #EndTheUnion and nobody would notice is just plain stupid.
Better informed people will also know that the Returning Officer is require to produce a report detailing EVERY aspect of the count. Spoilt (repurposed) papers are not simply discarded. EVERY ballot paper has to be accounted for. Spoilt papers are counted, recounted, recorded and placed under sealed cover. Doubtful or disputed papers – such as those with penises drawn on them – are set aside. Periodically, a count official will come to the counting table and go through the questionable papers declaring to the assembled observer his/her judgement and asking if anyone dissents. If there is an objection, that ballot paper is passed up the chain for further examination. The Returning Officer’s decision is final.
The idea that all of this invigilating could be going on and 100,000 repurposed ballots fail to attract attention is beyond stupid. As is the notion that the media wouldn’t latch onto such a story. They wouldn’t be able to resist it!
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The figures I used were purely hypothetical. Let me make it clear, I do not believe your idea has the potential to reach even a tenth of that figure.
Your fundamental desperation to see Scotland become independent is utterly repellent to the average voter whom we must win over. Reaching for ever more fanciful ideas which require hundreds of thousands of voters to act in concert according to your whims won’t do that. We will not become independent until a majority of us wishes to.
Reminder: That has not yet happened! All your “clever” plans and schemes are confounded by this simple fact. The Yes movement has been stuck in the plurality-but-not-majority territory since 2014. Every single election since 2017 has been a de facto referendum, whether anyone admits it or not.
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It doesn’t have to reach that figure. It only has to be exceptionally high. Even 1% would be higher than usual. 5% would be a sensation. I was wondering how anyone could fail to grasp this. But I think you’ve provided the explanation. Anyone who finds campaigning for the restoration of Scotland’s independence “utterly repellent” can’t be expected to be an effective campaigner for Scotland’s cause. They are highly unlikely to be able to understand far less appreciate novel ways of campaigning. And will all but certainly deplore direct action.
It is certainly true that for independence to be restored there will have to be a demonstrable majority. I’m not aware that anyone has denied that. So why you even mention it has to be put down to just another aspect of your blinkered stupidity. What you fail to understand (Don’t worry! I’m not going to attempt to list ALL the things that are beyond the grasp of your meagre intellect.) is that this requires a proper constitutional referendum. And that CANNOT happen so long as we are all walking on eggshells for fear of upsetting the Brits.
As increasing numbers of people are coming to understand, restoring Scotland’s independence will require much more than and very different from the insipid fare offered by the nominal pro-independence parties. But look how you react to even the mention of a tactic that isn’t out of the Pete Wishart book of leafleting and canvassing.
My clever plans and schemes – which, let us remind ourselves, you know less than nothing about – are all devised with the aim of furthering Scotland’s cause. The methods you favour have left that cause stagnating for nearly a decade and, for all that is on offer from the SNP and Alba and the rest, are set to keep the independence campaign moribund for another ten years or more.
Some of us are determined to get Scotland’s cause moving again. Those wedded to the old ways and the status quo would do well to just stay out of the fucking road.
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I understood what you were saying quite well and concluded that you have no point: There is no “pro-Yes” option if the theoretically pro-Independence parties do not stand on a manifesto for restoring Scotland’s full self-government and with a credible plan to enact that commitment if so endorsed by the electorate.
There may or may not be a mechanism for counting votes in a particular way but they are shown to election agents and candidates (see yesindyref2 comments below on this same article).
You may recall that the biggest ‘story’ of the 2007 Scottish/Holyrood elections reported by the media was the proportion of spoilt ballots (rather than the first SNP victory). Spoilt ballots constituted 2.9% and 4.1% of the constituency and regional votes, respectively. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Scottish_Parliament_election, section High number of rejected votes).
Brian Taylor of the BBC couldn’t talk about anything else during his commentary as the results came in and the printed media were no different. (See https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/may/09/scotland.devolution).
For comparison at other Scottish elections the proportion of spoiled constituency and regional votes, respectively, were as follows:
1999: 0.30%, 0.30%
2003: 0.66%, 0.65%
2011: 0.30%, 0.30%
2016: 0.40%, 0.20%
2021: 0.37%, 0.19%
Therefore, the 2007 experience of “spoilt ballots” was 10 times the norm.
So “spoilt ballots” at elections make news and the media would be almost certain to report this new ‘angle’, especially (if rather than there just being a set of random confused and genuinely “spoilt ballots”) there were, say, 20 times the usual amount and that these were purposefully sending a message of rejection of the British state and its pernicious political system.
If you support Scotland’s Cause voting SNP (or any of the others) at the moment is, in the famous words of Edmund Blackadder, like a broken pencil – pointless.
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2.9% to 4.1% is precisely what I meant by the worst of both worlds. It’s not substantial enough to achieve anything on its own(compared to say 50%). It is substantial enough to drag what would have otherwise been a 52% Yes total down to below 50%.
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I note that you ignore that the 2007 result had 10 times the norm for “spoilt ballots” and the fact that it was this feature that the media focused on (rather than the historic first ever SNP election victory of any kind).
It might also be worth checking your arithmetic regarding your “52% Yes total”:
The SNP got 32.9%, Greens 0.1% & SSP 0.0% of the constituency vote
On the list it was 31.0%, 4.0% and 0.6%, respectively.
But, as mentioned, this time around there are no “pro-YES” options on the ballot sheet. So even if you managed to get 95% or higher it would be irrelevant.
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FFS! You pile stupid on stupid! You seem to actually believe it makes some kind of difference to Scotland what the result of a UK election is. Those who don’t have their heads up their arse know full well that the outcome of the 2024 election will be decided in England. Even if every voter in Scotland turned out and all voted for one party – ANY party! – those votes would count for absolutely fuck all if England voted differently. That’s the way it works in the real world.
What changes is, say, Alba Party gets 52% of the vote? What changes if all nominal pro-independence parties together get 80% of the vote? PRECISELY FUCK ALL CHANGES!
There will be a British nationalist UK government no matter how we vote in Scotland. The Tories will be in power regardless of which of the main British parties forms the next UK government. The British state is a Tory state. You may vote the Tories out of office. You can never vote them out of power.
The ONLY way voters in Scotland can have any impact at all; the only way we can be heard, is to behave other than as we are expected to behave. If you want your vote to vanish without effect, vote like you’re supposed to. If you want to be noticed, join the campaign to repurpose ballots as a demand to #EndTheUnion.
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Hilariously, that is exactly the point I am trying to make. Once we persuade the majority of Scots of that fact, that we could elect 50 Tory MPs or 50 Alba MPs and it would make no difference at all, we would be significantly closer to becoming independent.
It’s the ol’ silent treatment. Don’t vote for Westminster governments. Stop listening to them. Empower the Scottish government to start acting independently.
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“Empower the Scottish government to start acting independently.”
The only way to do that is to vote for the party or parties that adopt a proper manifesto for Independence. A party that acts, or parties that act, in a way that it believes that the Scottish people are sovereign in their own land and that self-determination is a right not in the gift of a foreign government. A party that does not, or parties that do not, not defer to Westminster that compromise that sovereignty and undermine that self-determination right.
In other words a party, or parties, with a plan to facilitate the restoration of Scotland’s full self-government.
At present no such party or parties exist in Scotland.
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As far as I can see, this guide is the only one that refers to the inspection of spoilt ballots:
“Dealing with doubtful ballot papers in GB>/i>” (it should actually say UK not GB – what about NI?)
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/UKPE-doubtfuls-booklet. pdf (remove space before pdf)
“1.6 When undertaking the adjudication of ballot papers it is important to ensure that the process is carried out in full view of all candidates and agents present at the count, as well as in the presence of any Commission representatives and accredited observers in attendance”
But there’s also this:
“Guidance for Candidates and Agents at UK Parliamentary general elections in Great Britain>/i>”
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-candidates-and-agents-uk-parliamentary-general-elections-great-britain/verification-and-count/how-votes-will-be-counted
“Stage 2 – Verification
Ballot boxes are emptied onto tables
…
The verified ballot papers are shown to election and counting agents face up.”
Any better sources?
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really screwed up closing italic tags there 😦
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The regulations for the tedious nocturnal task of vote counting is here: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/UKPGE-easy-guide-to-the-count-FINAL-FILE-DL-Leaflet.pdf
But I don’t need to read it to know that a vote where someone hasn’t ticked one box is a spoiled vote, and you really, really don’t want to read the stuff that people write on them unless you are into vulgarians.
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That is not true. A drawing of a turd with a Union flag stuck in, if it is deemed to be substantially in the box for one candidate or option without impinging on any other candidate, may be deemed a valid vote for the first candidate. Any mark that could reasonably be taken to be a choice may be allowed. This is why people are advised not to draw something obscene beside the name of the British Tory candidate. They may unintentionally be voting for that candidate.
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“But I don’t need to read it to know that a vote where someone hasn’t ticked one box is a spoiled vote”
Four things wrong with that assertion.
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“3. Spoilt Ballot Papers in UK General Elections, 1964-2019”
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7529/CBP-7529. pdf (remove space before pdf)
2017 – total 74,289 — 114 per constituency – % of all ballots 0.23%
2019 – total 117,101 – 180 per constituency – % of all ballots 0.36%
Total for Scotland pro rata is 2017 = 6,726 and 2019 = 10,620
If it was 100,000 in Scotland, that would be 1,754 per constituency instead of 180, and 3.6% of all ballots.
I think they’d notice the big pile!
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Mmm, if a ream of paper (say 80gsm) is 2 inches, then 1,754 sheets is 7 inches. Multiply that by a crumple factor of say 4, and you get 28 inches.
I think it would topple over.
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Since every spoilt ballot has to be checked over carefully, that would take say 30 seconds each. So that would be 900 minutes = 15 hours.
I think people would notice the delay.
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Good point about the time taken to check. And this is why I would prefer that #EndTheUnion be hand-written. That would make each one unique. If, as has been suggested, voters use printed stickers, the ballots will all be identical and therefore more readily assessed. This is supposed to be a disruptive exercise. So, let’s disrupt in as many ways as possible.
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and the effect on the indy candidates seeing all these pro indy votes whizzing past them…
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Yes, stickers could be checked in a couple of seconds, though there’s still the overhead of handling each one. The 32 Returning Offices could delegate in writing to some assistants:
“1 .2The (A)RO may delegate the final decision on adjudication to one or more deputies, but this should be done explicitly in writing.
1.3 Because the (A)RO discharges a statutory function in adjudicating doubtful votes, the (A)RO or authorised Deputy (A)RO, and not any other staff employed by the (A)RO at the count, should carry out this function.”
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/UKPE-doubtfuls-booklet. pdf (remove space before pdf)
And of course there are 32 Local Authorities and hence ROs, not 57, so nearly double the work for each RO.
Could you imagine the news all over the UK and abroad, if no result in Scotland happened before midday the next day? In theory at least the whole of the UK would have to wait.
Oh, and just to make it more difficult, even the likes of Alan D could write “#EndTheUnion” across the ballot, BUT ALSO a tick (or cross) in the SNP box. Or more subtly, #EndTheUnion just across the SNP candidate and box, putting a line through all the other candidates. THAT is a valid vote. But still needs adjudication.
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Headline in the Daily Union:
“UK waits 3 days for votes to be counted in Jockland”.
Nice 🙂
I actually recommend this to the SNP itself – make the rUK wait for Scotland. A valid vote for the SNP, but not just with an X in the box.
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Spoiling ballot papers is for wankers. You would need a vociferous and sizeable mass-movement that boycots elections for anyone to take any notice of the mass-movement’s aims. That is as likely as Mars colliding with Earth. And as far as I can make out your/their single-minded aim would be for the Scottish parliament to declare that Scotland has left Britain, and then at some point after that hold a referendum about it (the results of which the Scottish parliament would take no notice of if it got it’s arse kicked?). As a plan, it sounds very Mickey Mouse to me, and probably 95% of independence supporters (with 100% if independence supporters comprising of about 50% of the electorate). It’s Alice in Wonderland stuff.
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The real fantasy is imagining you can achieve something by voting for any of the nominally pro-independence parties. But I have always said this campaign probably wouldn’t work. Not because it isn’t feasible or potentially very effective, but because of tossers like you who are too stupidly self-obsessed to participate in a mass campaign.
All but certainly, the election will pass and nothing will have changed except that we will be facing a rabidly British Nationalist UK government with a mandate to put a choke-chain on Scotland. But, of course, you won’t take responsibility for your part in this. That would take character and principle.
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“boycots elections” – it’s not boycotting the election, that would be abstaining.
“aim would be for the Scottish parliament to declare that Scotland has left Britain”
No, did you read the article? And it’s not “Britain”, it’s the UK.
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A “boycott” of an election is when you don’t use your ballot. By definition and self-evidently re-purposing your vote is not a boycott.
A re-purposed vote is recorded. It is examined. It is counted. So, on the contrary to your assertion of a boycott, it is taking part in the election.
It is an explicit rejection of the whole rotten British state and system of government and is an explicit endorsement of the restoration of Scotland’s full self-government.
#EndTheUnion
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