A challenge to all SNP/Sturgeon loyalists

If you wish to maintain that the SNP/Scottish Government has made progress towards restoring Scotland’s independence then share with us the evidence and/or reasoned arguments which have persuaded you of this. Please use the comments section for responses.

If for want of the ability to formulate a meaningful response to the first challenge, you wish to allow that the SNP/Scottish Government has not made progress towards restoring Scotland’s independence but to maintain that this is the fault of its critics within the Yes movement, explain to us how a relatively small number of bloggers and social media commenters could “derail” an SNP/Scottish Government which was determined to make progress towards restoring Scotland’s independence.

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15 thoughts on “A challenge to all SNP/Sturgeon loyalists

  1. You are an extremely patronising individual who has a very high opinion of himself. I live in hope of Scottish independence and the only source to gain it is the SNP.
    Nicola Sturgeon is a smart, ambitious lady and I’m confident she will be well aware that a failure to deliver the referendum in this term of office will be the end of her career in Scottish politics.


    1. Isobel, I took your reply to be tongue-in-cheek when offering your perspective on Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence. She is certainly ambitious although I am not as sure as you are on the smart. What I also take from it, is that you believe she is more concerned about her career than about Independence for Scotland or for the Scottish people.

      Liked by 7 people

    2. Got a question for you Isabel.

      Why do you think that practically all the Indy bloggers (apart from WGD) are scathing in their attacks on Sturgeon?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Because most bloggers are narcissistic idiots who are keen to appear smarter than everyone else. And you don’t do that by towing the party line. I’ve yet to see a practical road to Indy espoused by them that would get us any closer to the goal than the SNP has gotten us. Indeed, their “hell for leather”, “death or glory”, “over the top for Indy lads” attitude after every favourable poll or Westminster gaff would have seen the cause of Independence destroyed years ago.

        As to “how a relatively small number of bloggers and social media commenters could “derail” an SNP/Scottish Government which was determined to make progress towards restoring Scotland’s independence”; many of the bloggers alluded to have a very rosy view of their readership. One even boasts of having over a million individual viewers. It only takes a small percentage of these viewers to believe the mince they are being sold to lower the SNP/Indy vote enough to lose a Holyrood majority (oh look, its already happened!) and give Unionists hope. A situation only exacerbated by many of the acolytes of these bloggers actively campaigning against the SNP.

        The on-line environment created by these bloggers and their most ardent followers also allows active Unionists to hide in plain sight and post, not only anti-SNP tripe, but anti-Indy tripe on allegedly pro-Indy sites and get “likes” for it …. even from the bloggers themselves!!

        The hubris of the bloggers knows no bounds. The premise of PAB’s question is that Bloggers have very little influence over the Indy movement as there are so “relatively few” of them. However, that has not stopped them claiming it was them (especially one) that created the surge for Indy in 2014. The received wisdom (from Bloggers) is that the surge happened due to the on-line campaign where YES was dominant, and that it happened despite the Salmond led SNP NOT because of them. Now that they are being accused of undermining the Indy cause with incessant negativity (and providing safe havens for the enemies of Indy to take their campaign straight to the heart of the movement on the threads under their negative articles), they would, all of a sudden, have us believe they are just a small band of plucky underdogs incapable of influencing their own Granny never mind the viewers of their blog.

        Why is this? I refer you back to my initial statement; “because most bloggers are narcissistic idiots who are keen to appear smarter than everyone else”.


  2. Isabel:

    PAB gave the opportunity for you (and others) to provide reasoned answers in support of either 1 of 2 mutually exclusive options. You have addressed neither other than express the following theological virtues:

    1. Hope :
    “I live in hope of Scottish independence”

    2. Faith –
    “I’m confident she will be well aware that a failure to deliver the referendum in this term of office will be the end of her career in Scottish politics”.

    3. Charity
    “Nicola Sturgeon is a smart, ambitious lady”

    As for the personal comment about his character you may or may not be correct but it is hardly relevant.

    Liked by 8 people

  3. Isobel:”Nicola Sturgeon is a smart, ambitious lady “.

    She certainly is Isobel. Her ambition has nothing to do with independence though, and not smart enough to outwit the school dunce Boris. If you can’t see this, then you really are completely under her spell.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. We have yet another story with an SNP politician saying there will be no immediate Referendum
    This one in The (Glasgow) Herald….. “SNP MSP: Boris Johnson will not agree to Indyref2 and it won’t take place by 2023” .
    Have yet to see it appear in The National.

    Tho it has be said, The Herald these days is for doing any story that is either anti SNP for the sake of it, even if it is the most trivial garbage, and very, very anti Independence.
    And many of the comments on the forums are off the planet.
    It seems to be taken over by crazed rightwing pro London, pro Brexit types, at times.
    So a story like this one, is right up its street!

    But is also telling, that we have SNP parliamentarians, making such claims at all.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Gordon , it was Michelle Thompson and she definitely said it. The SNP are presenting open goals to the unionist press at the moment.

    To think I loaned her my first vote at the last election. A mandate to dither and procrastinate.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yes it was Michelle Thompson, but she has history of criticising Sturgeon, and of course the SNP removed the whip from her over allegations of fraud. Her opinion is therefore as impartial or neutral as that of MacAskill, Ahmed-Sheikh, Sillars – or Salmond. And yes, that means she’s a willing tool of the unionist media which frankly doesn’t say much for her own Indy credentials.

      As for the article, there seems to be a thing at the moment that 3.3% of YES voters are strongly anti-Sturgeon and it is assumed for some odd peculiar reason that the other 96.7% of voters are therefore “SNP/Sturgeon loyalists”.

      I suspect that in reality over 90% of Independence supporters aren’t really fussed either way, as long as we get Independence,but can be in favour some of the time, and critical other times. However, something like, I forget, 97% of SNP members recently support her. I’m not a member by the way, of any party TBTF, I’m non-aligned again (SNP member 2014-17) and will stay that way.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. In 2010, 2.4 million Scots voted in a Westminster election. In 2011, just under 2 million voted in a Holyrood election. In 2019 and 2021, elections to both saw near-parity with ~2.7 million votes cast. The credibility of Scottish institutions has been under savage – and sometimes with merit – attack over the past couple of years. Despite that, this equalisation still happened.

    When – not if! – we have to hold our own referendum and toss Westminster’s notions of legitimacy out, it’s essential to have our people with us. That includes a large number of No voters who consider, grudgingly or not, Holyrood to have achieved primacy as far as Scottish political life is concerned. Who consider the outcome of such a referendum binding even if Westminster would prefer they didn’t. Who forms a grassroots No campaign even if Westminster organises a total boycott.


      1. The first part? Progress towards independence? Do you not think it’s essential for the Scottish electorate to come to prefer Scottish institutions explictly over British ones, or at least on equal footing, in order to deliver independence?

        I’m offering that as evidence SNP/Scottish government has achieved some progress. Not quite enough of it yet, obviously, but we are moving in that direction. At least we’re not hundreds of thousands of votes behind the UK anymore.


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